#atn theories

[over-bi-the-wayside]

Unhinged tlt theories until I get Alecto news: day 3

Somewhere in the deep archives of the Sixth is a copy of the King James Bible. Specifically that one — no one’s quite sure who King James is, but the Bible is one of the greatest novels ever written, depicting metaphors. Every child studies it to learn metaphor — they’re pretty sure that Jesus is a metaphor for the Resurrection, and the apostles are the cavaliers. Maybe Jesus is a necromancer, they aren’t sure.

Of course, when Kiriona showed up, it turned into an academic disaster, every theory they ever had about Jesus is thrown into to flux, a generation of scholars are pissed to have to redo all of their projects, and suddenly maybe Jesus is a metaphor for the intense power held by the Tower Prince. But then what does that make the apostles? The houses? The cohort? They aren’t really sure.

John finds this entire situation hilarious and sends them a file box of Jesus Rock, pamphlets from other sects, and a different Bible. This is the greatest mystery of the millennia

[beguilingcorpse]

i hope alecto goes into so much detail regarding first and second gen lyctors and their relationships. i would read a whole book about just them. how did they all get along immediately post-resurrection? what inspired them to found each of their houses? how did it feel when the first pair ascended? what did augustine experience when he killed and ate his brother? why did mercy kill cristabel? what really happened with anastasia and samael? what about the ones we don't know much about - ulysses and titania, cyrus and valancy, casseiopeia and nigella? did the first generation even try to stop the second from ascending? how much did they each individually hate john? frankly i could watch a 20 season reality tv show about the 10,000 years the lyctors spent together on the mithraeum but barring that i will DEVOUR whatever tazmuir decides to give us about them in atn

[n1ghtwr1ter]

This is how it ends:

Gideon is going to take Alecto’s place as the soul of the Earth, because Alecto is long-dead and you can’t go home again. This will not involve her being Gideon anymore, mind you - the soul of a planet isn’t anything like a human being, because it is so large and contains so many multitudes. It contains concepts, like love and hate and forgiveness and mercy. It contains concepts like the freedom of the winds to blow, the mercy of the rains to soak the earth, the forgiveness of spring after a long and devastating winter. All of these, we have seen, Gideon also contains - and so the Earth will be Gideon, after a fashion. Hell, I suspect that the new citizens of Earth might even *name* it Gideon.

Gideon will be big and bright, full of promise and purpose. She will love the people who walk upon her ground, who ply her waters, who till her soil and coax new life from bare dirt. She will be a wonderful place to live - a new paradise, even, if you’re from the dead and dying Houses or the desperately struggling exoplanets. And in all the ways that matter, she will be Gideon.

And in all the ways that don’t matter, she won’t be Gideon anymore. They’re little ways, ways that will only matter to a very few, who will likely tell themselves that this is a good ending, this is the best thing for her, she always wanted freedom and what’s freer than being an entire planet? You can’t lock up a planet anywhere. They will tell themselves not to stand at her grave and weep. She isn’t there; she’s everywhere.

But you can’t kiss a planet. You can’t hold a planet. You can feel the whisper of the breeze through your hair, but it will never be her breath ghosting across your skin. You can feel the touch of the water all around you as you wade into the sea, but it will never be her arms embracing you. You tell yourself that you have no right to her, never did - especially not after how you treated her, especially not after what she did for you and, eventually, did for everyone - but you can’t help it: you miss her. It’s Gideon, and she belongs to everyone - but you miss your Gideon. And she is gone. You will never see her again.

It’s a very lovely and poetic ending and it’ll be a fitting end for the series but I hate it with every fiber of my being because god fucking dammit, those two kids deserved to be able to have their own lives, to learn how to be human beings together, to learn haltingly and with plenty of mess how to love each other in ways that did not rend or scourge. But I truly don’t think they will.

I know, I know, I’m a pessimist, what’s the evidence, etc.

- all of the parallels being established between Gideon and Alecto:

“The resting place of Harrowhark’s one true love,” how it’s Gideon’s sword now lying there when Harrow enters the tomb

The golden eyes

The healing abilities

The forgiveness

The love

The urge to be Harrow’s cavalier, and John’s

The anger

But also, I’m pretty sure Tamsyn said somewhere that all of the series is just cover for one simple, stupid joke. And what’s simpler and stupider than

I’m sure there’s a lot more evidence that I can’t remember just now - I’ll add it onto this post later like my little conspiracy board. I just can’t be arsed to look it up right now because thinking about it makes me want to die. But I’ve been very reluctantly working on this theory for months now and nothing I’ve seen has convinced me I’m wrong.

[beedreamscape]

My crack theory for ATN is that John will use Kiriona to preserve the sun (and the nine houses) by transferring the 'godhood' to her, which is why he didn't resurrect her in a regular body but in an immortal one, also why he's been flaunting her as his heir tower prince yadda yadda, so he can go fuck off and become mortal again and live the rest of his days on earth, frying that bacon Tamsyn talked about.

The tension of the book will either be him failing in doing that or succeeding and now they have the job to turn Kiriona mortal again.

With this also fulfilling the generational ructions she talks about.

If anything, John is crafty, and it'd be foolish of us to think he doesn't have a plan, what that plan is gonna try to achieve is where I fall flat, but we know the first step has been completed: the Tomb is open and Alecto is free (and if we consider those dreams are his actual connection to Alecto, he might've known about Harrow's soul swap and getting her back was also part of the plan).

[transbutchblues]

hello locked tomb fandom !

please tell me what you would like to see in the document i mentioned a few days ago, where i try to make an analysis of TLT and to write down every relevant information in the same document, to make it easier to create theories. for now i have written +20 pages, and my list of things to put in it is this :

• information about each House (planet, Lyctor, names, other thoughts).

• John + Alecto + the Lyctors (name meanings, main informations, pre-Res,…)

• a small analysis of the poem Annabel Lee by Edgar A Poe and all its parallels to John/Alecto

• House characters on which I have something to say (mostly about name meanings, from the name guides but also from my own brain + theories i’ve seen)

• BOE characters (name meanings and/or theories) + Blood of Eden itself

• Resurrection Beasts (status, appearance, which planet they might be)

• the River + the Tower + Hell/Beyond the River (layers of the River, stoma, whose souls are in Hell, what Hell is, the Tower ciphers, thoughts about the Tower and the devils)

• informations we have on all different variations of Lyctorhood (perfect lyctorhood, regular lyctorhood, imperfect lyctorhood with Gideon/Pyrrha and Harrow/Gideon, Grand Lysis) + other thoughts/comments on Lyctorhood

• comments on every chapter of GtN, HtN and NtN, with a color code to note on which re-read / after which books we can notice the meaning of a quote. not a summary of the chapters, i’m mostly re-writing all the annotations i put in my copies. this is probably what will take me the longest, i’m doing it for GtN right now and it’s exhausting

• for each chapter, which skull is represented.

• for each John chapter in NtN, the bible verse (+ the bible verse in the ARC)

(for some of these things i use posts made by users here, and if i still have the source i put it in the doc)

please tell me if you have any other ideas ! my hyperfixation is hyperfixating, i just think about TLT all the time

[robot-girl-bites]

A theory Ive not really seen in the fandom (though I could've just missed it) is why Alecto would have given John power over death if, in her own words, "I picked you to change". She was dying and she chose him to change things but she gave him power over death? It just seems off to me

But what if she didn't? What if John got the point of her gift Wrong. Power over thanergy and thalergy in general, power over death *and* life, the power to change things and help her

But the first thing he discovered his power on was the corpses he worked with, so he and the lyctors misinterpreted it as power over death solely, and that formed a framework that prevented them from realizing what the gift was

Alecto gave John the power to change things and heal, but he misunderstood and used it for destruction and death

The lyctors got the process wrong and became "half dead cannibals"

But in NtN, Palamedes and Camilla get the process right and become a proper lyctor

So maybe in AtN, Harrow can get Alecto's gift Right and Change things

We messed things up originally, but give us time... Please, just give us time. And we can Fix things

--

Would love to hear what other people think!

[wofworld]

i'm calling it right now that the wedding in alecto the ninth is going to be ianthe and kiriona. i don't have any reasonable evidence to support this but i just feel it in my bones and want this on record for when the book comes out and i turn out to be sooooo right.

[laurenttheninth]

there’s so much discussion happening around gideon and harrow for atn but i truly trust tazmuir to give us a narratively satisfying conclusion even if it fucking wrecks us forever

i think we need to talk about the two things we should actually fear re: atn which is

— alecto encounters the “free moustache rides” shirt and doesn’t recognize it (made worse if pyrrha and paul see this)

— one of the tridentarii dies and the other survives

[folfar]

absolutely convinced that John’s arc is going to finish with him in the tomb at the end of AtN

[haphazardlyannotated]

#and on a spiritual level I think nona is 'would you still love me if I was a worm'#she can't take care of herself#she's not useful#but they love her#they would love her no matter who or what she turned out to be#and isn't that unconditional love the heart of the question#maybe the worm with problems was the worm we still loved all along#the locked tomb#ntn spoilers#nona the ninth

(tags via @mayasaura)

On today’s episode of “The Alectopause is Slowly Driving Me to Insanity”

I had the genuine, only partially joking, thought today: “what if the strangely numerous amount of worm references and metaphors are leading up to a ‘would you still love me if I was a worm’ joke”

[over-bi-the-wayside]

Creating absurd/ridiculous TLT theories until I get some ATN news: Day 2

So Crux was essentially Harrow’s third parent. He was the most trusted person to Pelemena and Priamhark. What if they were a polycule and it just never became relevant in the text, and Gideon just never found it more important than her hatred for Crux? Mortus could also fit that position

[beguilingcorpse]

when harrow is reading out the summons from the first house at the very beginning of gtn the letter says the following:

"The Emperor calls now for postulants to the position of Lyctor, heirs to the eight stalwarts who have served these ten thousand years: as many of them now lie waiting for the rivers to rise on the day they wake to their King, those lonely Guard remaining petition for their numbers to be renewed and their Lord above Lords to find eight new liegemen." (paperback p. 39)

which on first read sounds like pretty standard catholic-esque language about a second coming and New Life, etc etc, but upon reread it's like. hang on. "rivers to rise" sounds a lot like The River. the passage implies that the lyctors who have died fighting the resurrection beasts will be resurrected (again, for some of them) a la second coming.

are we going to see some more og lyctors in alecto????

[n1ghtwr1ter]

Where’s Gideon’s sword???

[dammit-tazmuir]

I MEEEAAAN, even "undermining" the tragedy would itself be a narrative purpose, but it wouldn't have to, either, imo. Imagine...

Nona is gone. Nona was Alecto— or a fleeting glimpse at Alecto's core, the kind of "person" she has the capacity to be when she feels loved and relatively safe without the weight of so much pain and grief— but Alecto isn't Nona, and never will be again, not like that. And as we follow her, we can feel it, feel the same depth of love for all living things, the same innocent wonder, but it's different, distant, "alien" by human standards, far more than Nona was, and overshadowed by so much rage.

But there's Paul. There's Pyrrha. Her memories of Anastasia, and this black-eyed infant who reminds her so much of her, whose body she once borrowed and who has sworn herself to her even as Alecto has sworn herself in turn. There's another gold-eyed woman wielding a sword, a child who reminds Alecto of herself, and also of John, and for all her anger toward him, John is part of her and she part of him and there's nothing she can do to stop the part of her that treasures that love, as warped and poisonous as it is. The gold-eyed child does not love Alecto, resents her in fact, and there's something fascinating in that— that this child who is like John and like herself would not love her— but the golden child loves the nun in a way that resonates deeply with Alecto. Perhaps she grows to respect Alecto because she's important to the other, and that too is fascinating, meaningful in a different way than if she was simply loved directly.

And as Alecto watches the Reverend Daughter, she almost recognizes things about the way she moves, about the body's needs and quirks, and she almost remembers. And she interacts with Pyrrha, who knew her as Alecto and treats her as Alecto, but not entirely, not like she did before, there's something else in it now, something sad and tender, and she almost remembers. She interacts with Paul, and she can see how similar they are to her and John, and to what John had the others do to their cavaliers, but they aren't quite either thing: a being made of love, for whom nothing was taken and everything was given. Yet even being what they are, something about the way Paul treats Alecto is especially loving, especially soft, even when it seems they shouldn't be, and she almost remembers.

Maybe someone tells her, even, maybe she "knows", but in the way you know of a person you read about in history. Knowing there was a period where she was someone else and that these people cared for that person is something, but that wasn't her, and could even be a source of resentment that they treat her like it was. But sorry, Alecto, even if you don't remember, they loved you, and you can't take loved away.

And then somehow she acquires the fucking t-shirt, or even something that reminds her enough of it, and the stupid vulgar joke on something made for the kind of meat prison she doesn't even want to be in hits her harder than it has any right to. She still doesn't remember, she still isn't Nona, but there's something, SOMETHING she can't even understand in her that knows this was important to Nona, that the little girl she became for a time treasured this to the core of their soul. It's something so trivial, something so absurd, and it symbolizes all the love Nona ever felt and all the love others had for her.

If it's the actual shirt, not another copy or something similar, then it also symbolizes survival, that something like that would make it through everything New Rho endured and whatever else has happened since. If Pyrrha or Paul don't go personally retrieve it to bring to her, or something doesn't prompt Alecto to go seek it, it would symbolize fate, even, to still end up with Alecto. There's so much you could pack into it.

BUT ALSO...

xD The literal embodiment of planet earth wearing a Cheap Mustache Rides t-shirt is hilarious and iconic, and combining that with all the potential emotional weight and symbolism it would offer is entirely Tazmuir's jam, c'mon! It'll be disappointing if there isn't some kind of callback with the way she writes lmao. She also deserves the burger shirt and I'd take either tbh, but if she just gets one, mustache is better. So HERE'S HOPING.

Of my many wishes for Alecto the Ninth that would make me explode if fulfilled, Alecto somehow finding that birthday T-shirt from Pyrrha and remembering would lead to the greatest meltdown by far.

[fkapommel]

I believe that it is thematically necessary for griddlehark full lyctorhood, or on Harrowhark Christ

Together, Harrow and Gideon complete the symbolism of Christ. You have the obvious Christographic imagery in the start and end of Gideon's life: she is a "virgin" birth, a genetic product of God without any sexual interaction between her mother and father; she was concieved in order to die, specifically to be sacrificed to save the souls - in a literal and metaphorical sense - of the innocent, i.e. non-necros; and she died ultimately by her own choice, dying with the use of pentrative weapons.

But Harrow is literally the "child of man" - she is the cumulation of a generation, not one but many, the many made one. Harrow resembles young Jesus debating and educating the priests of the Temple, already knowing more about the arts of the spirit, of life and death, than his teachers as an infant. Both are prodigies of their craft. She is literally and figurarively carrying her cross all of HtN, the sword physically resembles a cross and is a burden of both her and Gideon's sins. And Harrow, in her soup making era, pulled off the Eucharist, transforming Mithraeum family dinner night into sacrifical, (not metaphysical) cannibalism night. Though both G & H have lain entombed and miraculously resurected, it was Harrow that descended into Hell to interact with the dead (more on this when ATN reveals what she did in Hell).

In one way, this creates friction, a literary rivalry, between the two characters. Who is more Jesus-like? Who is more central to the narrative? I argue that its in merging them that we see a clearer narrative reflection of the scriptural material of both the physical book series and the religio-imperalist model Jod based his empire on. This meta-textual symbolism HAS to be incorporated within the narrative itself given the device of lyctohood, wherein two souls literally meld to become inseperable and indistinguishable. By becoming full lyctors (and seperately i suspect that theyll become perfect lyctor numero dos), the Christographic symbolism embodied by both Gideon and Harrow will become literal and plot relevant, and solidify their lyctorhood not just as a narrative goalpost, a "hell yea" moment for the reader, or a completion of the main narrative conflict of their constant division. Their merging via the Eightfold Path will be semi-prophetic and imbued with religious significance as they both represent a halved Christ.

Gideon and Harrow HAVE to become full/perfect lyctors not just to release the symphonic tension of their constant coming togethers and going aparts, but to complete the image of a divided messiah.

Tldr: yes gideon is jesus, but harrow is jesus too and together they make Double Jesus. Jesus pt. 2 WILL become canon via full or perfect lyctorization!!!

Edit: I do NOT think ATN will /end/ with lyctor!griddlehark; thats just not in character for either of them, nor would that provide a morally satisfying end that is in contrast to Jod's ethos. I believe they will uncover the process and either temporarily inhabit full/perfect lyctorhood, find a way to balance their soul melange equally, or sever their soul bond completely (worst option!) Them uncovering the truth to lyctorhood, however, is necessary to resolve (meta)narrative tension.